JICA Training Programme "Capacity Development in Environmental Management (Air and Water Pollution Control) for Middle Eastern Countries" - Interview with Training Course Participants：Environmental Problem in the Middle East -
"Capacity Development in Environmental Management (Air and Water Pollution Control) for Middle Eastern Countries" ( 23 January to 27 February 2009)
Mr. Bashar Daie,
Engineer in EIA Directrate (Head Assistance),
General Commission for Environmental Affairs -
EIA Directrate, Ministry of Local Administration and Environment,
SYRIA
Ms. Sabine Hussein Ghosn,
Engineering Management Specialist,
Service of Prevention from Technological
Impacts and Natural Disasters,
Ministry of Enviroment,
LEBANON
Mr. Chuzo Nishizaki
Manager
Planning and Coordination
Project Division
GEC
Although this interview has been partially edited, all efforts have been made to ensure its faithful reproduction.
As such, please note that the statements contained therein may contain factual discrepancies.
Mr.Nishizaki :Thank you very much for taking the time for our interview. First, please tell us about your country.
Mr. Bashar : Ok. As you know, our country lies in the Middle East on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea. We are bordered from the north by Turkey, from the west by the Mediterranean Sea and Lebanon, from the south by Jordan and Palestine and from the east by Iraq. Our official language is Arabic. The main religions in Syria are Islam and Christianity. English is not widely spoken in our country. Our currency is the Syrian Pound and the Lira. The capital is Damascus. Syria is a very safe country and the people are very friendly. Syria is also a very ancient country because the first alphabet in the world was created near Latakia in a region called Ras Shamra.
And we have four distinct seasons like here in Japan; summer, autumn, spring and winter. Our population is about 20 million.
Mr.Nishizaki : Is the population of Damascus 5 million?
Mr. Bashar : Yes. It's around 5 to 6 million.
Mr.Nishizaki : I see. Thank you. How about Lebanon.
Ms. Sabine : Well, Lebanon is in the Middle East on the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. To the north and east we have Syria, to the south we have Palestine and to the west we have the Mediterranean Sea. The area of Lebanon is 10,542km2 and the population is 4,200,000. The capital is Beirut which has a population of 1,500,000 people. The language is Arabic and the currency is the Lebanese pound.
According to World Bank classifications, Lebanon is an upper middle-income country, and it has a GDP of about US$4,000 per capita. Ninety percent of its population lives in urban areas, and population density is about 430 people per square kilometer. More than one quarter of the population lives in Greater Beirut, in the capital. Forests comprise 3.5 percent of the total land area. Talking more about statistics, freshwater resources amount to about 1,100 cubic meters per capita per year. And finally, agricultural land constitutes about 32 percent of the total land area.
Mr.Nishizaki : About one quarter of the people in your country are gather around Beirut.
Ms. Sabine : Yes, that may be what distinguishes Lebanon from other countries. In Lebanon, people also live in Beirut. They don't only come to work and then go home. The population is concentrated in Beirut, where they live and work. For example, in Japan, maybe people come to the capital and the big cities to work and at night, they leave. Lebanon is different.
Mr.Nishizaki : So they both live and work in Beirut?
Ms. Sabine : Yes. Sometimes people work outside Beirut but there are houses there so they live outside Beirut.
Mr.Nishizaki : Please tell us about the most serious environmental problem in your country.
Mr. Bashar : I want to summarize the environmental problems in our country as follows. First, we have depletion and contamination of soil and ground water sources. We also have air pollution in large cities like Damascus, Aleppo and Homs.
Mr.Nishizaki : Regarding the contamination of ground water, what is the cause of the contaminants?
Mr. Bashar : Maybe open dump sites, and also the burying of solid waste.
Mr.Nishizaki : It's related to dump sites?
Mr. Bashar : Yes, I think the problem is because of inappropriate practices in solid waste disposal.
Mr.Nishizaki : I see. In your country, are there any incinerators like in Japan?
Mr. Bashar : No, I don't think we have any. We incinerate waste at open sites.
Mr.Nishizaki : Open sites? Does that cause air pollution?
Mr. Bashar : Yes, unfortunately. In this training course, we saw the Hirano Incineration Plant in Osaka and it's very high technology. So maybe in the future, we can build a similar one but smaller.
Mr.Nishizaki : But incinerator costs are high and they need a lot of fuel and may not be the right solution in terms of global warming problems. Have you ever heard the word “3R”? Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
Mr. Bashar : Yes, 3R.
Mr.Nishizaki : Japan is tackling waste problems with the concept of 3R.
Mr. Bashar : And we also have a growing problem with illegal areas, in residential and industrial areas.
Mr.Nishizaki : Illegal?
Mr. Bashar : It affects the sustainable development of all resources. It causes depletion of water resources, air pollution and soil degradation.
Mr.Nishizaki : And bad sanitation situation. I see.
Ms. Sabine : I want to talk about Lebanon. In general, there was a study about the cost of environmental degradation and it was estimated to be 565 million dollars per year which constitutes about 3.4 percent of GDP. And if you break down the cost of this environmental degradation, you see that most of it is caused by water pollution and air pollution which means that the major problems in Lebanon are the air quality and water quality. In detail, 31% is caused by water pollution or water quality and 30% is caused by air pollution. And let me provide a few details on the problems with the water and air sectors. In the water sector, first we have increasing pressure caused by an increasing population, an expanding economy, uncontrolled urbanization, and agricultural malpractices. Like the use of agrichemicals; the uncontrolled use of agrichemicals. So these pressures impact upon both water quality and quantity, not water quality alone. For example, we have excessive use in the agricultural sector of surface and ground water for irrigation and we have excessive application of agrochemicals. In the industry sector, we have the discharge of liquid waste and uncontrolled disposal of solid waste. We also have a huge problem in the transport sector because of the use of leaded gasoline and the disposal of waste oils and ballast water but there was a suggestion to ban the use of leaded gasoline recently. We also have problems in the energy sector which consists of hydropower and thermal power plants and also, of course, from human settlement and human activities such as uncontrolled sewage disposal and excessive use of ground water resources. And air pollution, we have 3 main sources; we have the transport sector and the industrial sector and the energy sector. The energy and the industrial sectors we rely heavily on fuel, which leads to a lot of environmental air pollution and of course impacts upon health also. From the transport sector, there are automotive emissions which lead to major public health concerns. But Lebanon is doing a lot to try to reduce and control the effects of air and water pollution.
Mr.Nishizaki : I think that, first and foremost, the agriculture methods should be improved because if they use as much water as they want, maybe there will be lack of water so the question is how to irrigate or how much water should be used for agriculture. I think that is one method for improving agriculture.
Ms. Sabine : Awareness plays a role, a very big role in this. The government of Lebanon is playing a major role in raising awareness among farmers. Not only to use less water but also to use effective methods and techniques and minimize the use of agrichemicals. And sometimes we can rely on environmentally friendly methods to control pests and for fertilization other than chemicals.
Mr.Nishizaki : Do they mainly use chemical fertilizers? Not organic fertilizers?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, they use chemicals. For pesticides and fertilizers. Recently we are trying to, as I said, raise awareness about organic farming to use organic fertilizers and compost. We also use, for example, solar energy and fumigation and pest control.
Mr.Nishizaki : I think if you do composting, it will improve waste management and also agriculture.
Ms. Sabine : Yes, and of course it is also going to have economic benefits for the farmers. Using less chemicals and other ways that cost less and are more efficient at the same time.
Mr.Nishizaki : That's a good idea.
Mr.Nishizaki : Are there any efforts being directed towards solving these problems at a national and municipal level?
Mr. Bashar : Yes, we have made big efforts in recent years in the field of the environment. We adopted Environmental Law no. 50 from 2002. We are signatories to all conventions in the field of environmental protection. We've done a lot in cooperation with NGOs, and recently we are also doing environmental impact assessment studies for new large scale projects in Syria. And as you see, we are now in Japan taking a training course on the environment in the field of air and water pollution to gain experience in this field to improve the situation in our country.
Mr.Nishizaki : I hope so. In Japan also, 25 or 30 years ago, like your country, things were very bad. The river water smelled bad. I am confident that you will be able to improve the situation your country.
Mr. Bashar : Thank you.
Mr.Nishizaki : How about Lebanon?
Ms. Sabine : As I said before, the government is playing a good role in addressing these problems. In terms of air quality control and dealing with the air quality problems, for example, the government has introduced new legislation and the Ministry of Environment has developed new stack emission standards for industry.
Mr.Nishizaki : Air?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, new stack emission standards and we also had Ministry of the Environment decision 52/1 on ambient air quality standards which was issued in 1996. And the Ministry of Environment released a new set of standards for classified establishments covering air emission limits as well as liquid waste discharge limits to address waste water and air pollution. And, as I said earlier, in the transport sector in 2001, there was a law that aimed to reduce air pollution by banning the import of diesel-powered engines, diesel-powered minivans, diesel engines and private cars. And in 2004, there was a total ban on the use of leaded gasoline.
Mr.Nishizaki : I see.
Ms. Sabine : The main problem was air pollution due to leaded gasoline.
Mr.Nishizaki : For human health?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, it came gradually. First in 2001, they banned the import of diesel-powered engines and minivans, and in 2004, there was a total ban on leaded gasoline.
Mr.Nishizaki : I see.
Ms. Sabine : As for water quality, mainly we have plans to procure additional water resources to alleviate shortages.
Mr.Nishizaki : Where from?
Ms. Sabine : From dams and lakes.
Mr.Nishizaki : In Lebanon?
Ms. Sabine : In Lebanon, yes. Because as I said, we have water shortages and if we continue to consume at the present rate, we would reach a point where we won't be able to cover our water demand. So the government is taking this into consideration and trying to formulate policies and plans to provide new water resources and, of course, not polluted water but good quality water. And this is promoting the use of more efficient irrigation methods and agriculture. Implementation of wastewater treatment projects and also the reuse of treated water for irrigation.
Mr.Nishizaki : That sounds like it will require very sophisticated techniques.
Ms. Sabine : Yes, but of course the government is facing a lot of problems., These are plans which need a lot of technical, financial and of course human resources for their implementation which are not always available to the government.
Mr.Nishizaki : You would probably prefer to find the water resources in your own country. I've heard that Lebanese cedars are called the tree of God. There are a lot of cedars around that point, in the mountains.
Ms. Sabine : Mainly in the north of Lebanon, we have a lot of cedars and also on Mt. Lebanon, but the government is trying to preserve these cedars because, you know, in the first, very old Phoenician ages and throughout history, they used to use the wood of the cedars to build ships. So a lot of cedars were cut to build ships.
Mr.Nishizaki : Ships?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, throughout history. And recently there have been problems with pests attacking the cedars, and luckily the Ministry of the Environment together with other stakeholders was able to fight this pest and found the solution to preserve them because they are the oldest cedars in the world.
Mr.Nishizaki : Are they well protected now?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, they are protected. Cedars are now protected in nature reserves. They are classified as a protected species.
Mr.Nishizaki : Are these reserves world heritage listed?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, of course.
Mr.Nishizaki : How about sewage treatment plants in Damascus or Beirut? How many are there?
Mr. Bashar : We have a central waste water treatment plant in Adra.
Mr.Nishizaki : In Adra?
Mr. Bashar : In Damascus. A big central plant. But I think that the efficiency of this plant is not so good because we have problems... effluent from industrial factories. So we are now thinking of establishing a small waste water treatment plant for each small area instead of just one large treatment plant so we want to replace it with several small waste water treatment plants for each small areas. Maybe that would be better to raise the efficiency of the plants.
Mr.Nishizaki : Maybe there is a lack of treatment capacity, so the water quality is not so good.
Mr. Bashar : Yes.
Mr.Nishizaki : How about in Beirut? Is there a sewage treatment plant?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, both in Beirut and outside Beirut we have sewage treatment plants but neither of them are fully operating or they have stopped for some reason. We have a lot of sewage discharged into the sea.
Mr.Nishizaki : Without treatment?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, without treatment and this is a major problem and we are trying to work on it as a part of a national plant for sewage treatment and water pollution control.
Mr.Nishizaki : I hope you will be able to implement the sewage treatment plant in your city in the future.
Mr.Nishizaki : Please tell us about your current job. Are there any difficulties in performing your work?
Mr. Bashar : I am a civil engineer specializing in the environment and I am working for the Ministry of Local Administration and Environment in the General Commission for Environmental Affairs of the EIA (Environmental Impact Assessment ) Directorate. In my work, the main subject we are dealing with is environmental inspection and environmental auditing and we are also auditing environmental impact studies for new projects and newly- built factories. We also participate in all environmental conventions including Basel, Rotterdam and so on. We also have good cooperation with NGOs and in our directorate especially, we are preparing a lot of training courses and work shops for all governorates in Syria to raise people’s awareness of environmental issues.
Mr.Nishizaki : I see. Does that mean you sometimes inspect factories?
Mr. Bashar : We have an inspection team and sometimes I am a member.
Mr.Nishizaki : You instruct factories to improve the quality of effluent if it is bad.
Mr. Bashar : Or if the factory doesn't have a filter, for example, then you have to install a filter or repair the existing filter.
Ms. Sabine : I am working for the Ministry of the Environment in Lebanon, Service of Prevention from Technological Impacts and Natural Disasters.
Mr.Nishizaki : Including natural disasters?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, natural disasters and any impacts caused by technologies.
Mr.Nishizaki : Caused by technology like oil spills?
Ms. Sabine : Yes. Do you know about the oil spill that happened in Lebanon?
Mr.Nishizaki : I have read about it.
Ms. Sabine : Actually, when I came to the Ministry two and a half years ago, there was an incident involving an oil spill. Because the Ministry was understaffed, there were only about 60 people so our service was responsible for the oil spill crisis that was caused during the 2006 Israel war on Lebanon. Although it wasn't among my main tasks, because it was an emergency and they needed people to work on it, there was a committee and I was in the committee. Also I am the chief coordinator for the Stockholm convention on POPS, Persistent Organic Pollutants, and I also work on the management of medical waste, hazardous medical waste.
Mr.Nishizaki : How do you treat medical waste now?
Ms. Sabine : We use autoclaving. We try to sterilize the waste. To treat the waste using methods other than incineration because, as I said, we signed the Stockholm convention on POPS and we have to respect the conventions. The target of the Stockholm convention is to reduce emissions of POPS and mainly dioxins because dioxins are prescribed on the Stockholm convention. Because dioxins are emitted through the incineration of plastics and some other types of waste, we are trying to use autoclaving and not incineration. But we do have incinerators from before the signing the Stockholm convention and have permits for these incinerators but we are trying to put strict conditions on these incinerators in terms of high temperatures to avoid the emission of dioxins. So this is how we are dealing with medical waste.
Mr.Nishizaki : Operation of incineration plants is very difficult and requires sophisticated techniques, so you have made the right choice.
Ms. Sabine : We don't have major incineration plants for many hospitals. For example, we have one hospital that has its own incinerator, so even the hospital that has a permit for this finds it difficult to operate the incinerator and very expensive, so that's why they are shifting from incineration to treatment of waste by autoclaving at the right temperature and pressure rather than incineration.
Mr.Nishizaki : In Japan, also, some houses had their own small incinerators, but because they were the cause of dioxin problems, the government banned the use of this kind of incinerators.
Ms. Sabine : Because maybe the temperature in such incinerators is not that high.
Mr.Nishizaki : Yes, it's very difficult to control it.
Mr.Nishizaki : Do you know anything about the environmental education for children in your country?
Mr. Bashar : Yes, we have it in elementary and secondary school. There are some materials about water conservation, using renewable energy and recycling waste but actually we are still in the early stages and we hope to provide a lot of materials about the environment to young school children and also to universities. We would be happy if you could help us.
Mr.Nishizaki : What kind of materials do you think you need?
Mr. Bashar : For example, for university students, we need specific materials about pollution including air pollution, water pollution, and about how to set standards and criteria to control it. Also, something to raise awareness about, for example, recycling and how we can use renewable energies instead of fuel. This is just to raise awareness among the students.
Mr.Nishizaki : Like a guidebook?
Mr. Bashar : Yes, like a guidebook and important materials like mathematics and physics in schools and universities. We hope to do that.
Mr.Nishizaki : I see. I think it would be very useful to children.
Ms. Sabine : I am not sure about the curriculum or (if there are any programs in ) primary or elementary schools, but what I do know is that in our time, schools didn't focus on environmental education. Now it is being introduced into the curriculum and awareness for children is starting from elementary school. We also have some small environmental projects on 3R; recycling, reducing and also how to sort their waste. For example, the Ministry of the Environment and some NGOs are providing schools with different types of boxes to sort the waste into recyclables such as plastic, metals from organic waste. Also some schools have projects on composting of organic waste. They collect their food and make compost, and later, they experience how to use it in soil and how to get fertilizer to work.
Mr.Nishizaki : They are making compost by themselves?
Ms. Sabine : Yes, I worked on a project in which a school was making compost out of their organic waste. Also on the Ministry website which is www.moe.gov.lb, we have a lot of guides, green guides and green textbooks for kids and some small projects for kids too because raising awareness from childhood is very important because they will be the future generation taking care of our environment.
Mr.Nishizaki : I think that kind of hands-on education is very useful.
Ms. Sabine : We also have a TV spot.
Mr.Nishizaki : Thank you.
Mr.Nishizaki : Which lecture or observation was the most useful for you?
Do you think that you can utilize the abilities acquired through this course after going back to your country?
Are there any other lectures that you would like to take in the future?
Mr. Bashar : In general, all the lectures we took were useful, but I would like to talk about the site visits. If I talk about the lectures, it takes a long time so I will only talk about the site visits. In my opinion, the Biyo Center visit was very useful because they used natural material to filter the water and that is suitable for our country because it's cheap and it's relies on natural materials. If we introduced a similar method, it would be good for our country. The second one is Jokaso, an individual waste treatment plant. That would also be good for our country. We have a strong need for it in the villages, because in some villages we don't have a sewerage system, so it would be a good solution for us. We gained a lot of experience but I think that those are the most important matters for our country at this time. We also visited the Hirano incineration plant and Nanohana project. It was useful to learn about converting cooking oil to bio diesel. It's a good method and would also be useful for our country.
Mr.Nishizaki : The Biyo Center is studying ways to improve the quality of water from Lake Biwa.
Ms. Sabine : Most of the lectures were very useful but especially the site observations because they provided us with a picture of how to apply what we learnt here in your country, of course, in a way that is applicable to our own country, because Lebanon and Japan have different conditions. The most important observation was the Jokaso system and the BIYO Center and incineration plant and also the wastewater treatment station. Visiting the wastewater treatment station was very important for me because in Lebanon, as I said, we are facing a lot of problems regarding this issue. I found that the Jokaso system is a good way to treat household domestic wastewater in rural areas because there is no need to have a wastewater treatment system station in rural areas, especially in a country that has financial problems and maybe it's not feasible in rural areas, so I might suggest our government conduct a pilot test to see if it's feasible in Lebanon. Still, it's Japanese technology so it's much better and less expensive here but expensive in Lebanon, but there is no harm to adopt it and maybe modify it.
Mr.Nishizaki : The Japanese Jokaso system is very high-tech and expensive, so if you want to adopt that kind of system you should modify it.
Ms. Sabine : Yes, a lot. Also the Biyo Center was very useful to observe because it relies not on hi-tech but on native plants and I am also going to suggest the pilot project on native plants to use them for the filtration of water to improve water quality in our lakes and rivers. I think it is applicable in Lebanon. It's not very hard to apply it.
Mr.Nishizaki : That kind of treatment system is rather a classical type.
Ms. Sabine : Yes, it's a conventional way and not very expensive and it can be done in our country.
Mr.Nishizaki : What do you think of Japan’s efforts towards the environment? Are there any big differences in the approaches of Japan and your country?
What is your impression of Japan?
Mr. Bashar : First, I think you have done your best to improve the state of the environment, and I notice that everything here is clean. The streets, roads, rivers, lakes and gardens, and I think also there are big efforts in the field of monitoring for air and water pollution and there is a big effort to reduce emissions from industries and to make all the lakes and rivers clean from pollutants. The difference between Syria and Japan is actually that there is a big gap in technology and experience in the field of environment because we are still in the first stage. I think we need more time to improve the condition of the environment and we need more experience in this field. So this is very useful for us to undertake a training course here in Japan because you have a strong background, especially Osaka, in dealing with water and air pollution. My impressions are that Japanese people are very friendly and polite when you speak with anyone anywhere, they speak with you with a smile and try to help you. You have amazing transportation systems, especially trains. Japanese people work hard and respect their work.
Mr.Nishizaki : Thank you very much. How about you?
Ms. Sabine : Let me talk first about Japan's environmental crises in the past. It was successful in overcoming the crises, maybe you see it as a long time and maybe I see it as a short time, because it takes other countries much longer to overcome such crises. I was really amazed about the high level of environmental awareness among Japanese people. If you care about the next generation, you have to take care of the environment because our future generation has a right to enjoy it. It's not going to stop with us. It has to be passed on to the next generation and Japanese people are really aware of this and they care about each other and the environment. Talking about technology, I was really amazed about Japan’s high technology and the level of professionalism. Also, there is very rich cultural heritage in Japan. People are very decent, very friendly, always smiling, and they deal with other people with a very high level of professionalism. Japan is aware of the fact that prevention is much better than remediation because when you prevent, you pay much less than when you remediate. So hopefully, in Lebanon, we will be able to reach a point where we can prevent and not only remediate.
Mr.Nishizaki : I hope so. Do you mean Japanese cultural heritage like old temples and shrines?
Mr. Bashar : We visited old temples in Kyoto.
Ms. Sabine : Not only temples but also the habits of Japanese people, the way they salute each other, the way they talk, and the habits when they sit, when they walk and everything. They have a lot of habits that are different from the rest of the world which gives you a feeling of peace and lifestyle that is completely different from and yet very peaceful and friendly.
Mr.Nishizaki : Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. [Back]
